Why do yearly sports franchises feel the need to always tinker with and update the Career/Franchise modes when they get to a point of having it knocked? I know they all have to come up with new bells and whistles to get its regular customers to come back year after year to spend money on games that are similar to its predecessor. I just feel that they take steps backwards in attempts to update a game mode that can be somewhat perfect in prior seasons. Take the FIFA 11/FIFA 09 Career modes comparison for example. Let's begin with why FIFA 09 had it so right.
The Career mode in FIFA 09 allowed gamers the possibility of taking control of a Club and making the entire roster and organization better over the seasons of playing experience. It was very much user controlled with what got improved and how quickly it was improved. Users were able to even include their own created characters on Career Mode clubs to make the experience even more like the "My Player" modes so many sports franchises implement. In FIFA 09, users could control almost anything you could imagine in a GM/Managerial aspect of a Career. Improving the stadiums and the staff and the players was all very customizable. The major sticking point for what made the FIFA 09 Career mode so good was how a user could control player growth. Sure, the experience point method has some subjectivity to it. The players who played and played well were the ones who gained the most experience points throughout a season. Even the substitutes and reserve players gained points for being on the squad throughout the season. You couldn’t always tell from game to game how a performance would garner a player more or less points, but it seemed to even out fairly throughout a full Club season. The distribution of said experience points and how players got better was so user friendly and well thought out. A user wasn’t able to just max out every possible category on ever player on their team to make a team full of 5 Star studs. At the same times, I could individualize how certain players improved to better fit the roles on my team as I wanted. If I purchased a 6’4” striker with good heading ability I would go out of my way to improve only certain categories to help fit my team philosophy. I would aim to improve his jumping ability, heading accuracy, and finishing to create a good fit for my team at his position. I never bothered to improve his defending abilities with the experience points I had to distribute to just him. This is just one example of how FIFA 09 made team growth very user controlled. To add on to this point, I was able to scout future players and these faceless, nameless players would become my best players because I was able to improve my scouting team throughout the seasons of user-controlled play. And, those same scouted players were modified by the experience points method to become elite at certain skills that fit the squad I wanted. Especially important when using a lower tier Club such as MK Dons in the English pro leagues as opposed to a World Club power like Manchester United.
Compare the FIFA 09 Career method to FIFA 11. FIFA 11 offers none of the fully customizable options to upgrade and have hands on control of how players grow and perform. You can’t upgrade a team’s facilities or staff or scouting program. FIFA 11 improved the game play and how the season runs in Career mode. Being able to just control your created player or the whole team is a good option. The Transfer market and schedule changes seem like good improvements on the mode. But, I see no marked improvement in my team, my players or my own created player. It is especially frustrating to watch my created Goalkeeper gain no further improvements because of the flaws in how he would improve. For example, I can improve my created Goalie’s “Positioning” rating if I get ONE match rating of 9 out of 10 in a user-controlled game. In my 50+ games of playing this Career Mode I have never come close to a 8 out of 10. I am punished for playing well as a team in a game. If my team wins a match 4-0 and the opposing team does not score or even attempt any shots on my goalie his ratings suffer. Apparently the only way to get a good rating for my keeper is to allow the computer controlled opponent to have the ball and shoot at my goalie for the entire 90 minutes. Doesn’t this seem counterintuitive to properly playing a simulated game of soccer? Do I have to bite the bullet and juke the stats just to improve my player? Along the same lines, why would a player improve his goalie ratings simply by playing in 50 games? Yes, FIFA 09 had similar problems with the subjectivity of how some players improved. But, the method was a lot better just 2 years ago. Now I feel like if I took over a team like MK Dons in FIFA 11 I would never be able to improve them as a club the way I did in FIFA 09. MY FIFA 11 user controlled created player will never improve at this current rate of game play unless I just manipulate the actual game play to attain accomplishments that should have nothing to do with ratings improvement.
I just wish the people behind the FIFA Soccer franchise could take a look back and realize they did not have to change or improve upon a system that worked for a user such as me. I like to believe I am not the only one out there who has had this thought. in FIFA 09. MY FIFA 11 user controlled created player will never improve at this current rate of game play unless I just manipulate the actual game play to attain accomplishments that should have nothing to do with ratings improvement.
I just wish the people behind the FIFA Soccer franchise could take a look back and realize they did not have to change or improve upon a system that worked for a user such as me. I like to believe I am not the only one out there who has had this thought.
|||Agree completely. 2 years of 'development' to deliver something so sub-standard. Can they look each other in the eye at EA and still congratulate themselves on release? They know what they've done. Are the developers of career mode FANS of career mode? It doesn't seem they even played their game.|||Well it should be divided by categories you can put points into instead of the actual growth attributes.
Generally I am of the ilk.......Give me all the control in offline mode to do what I want......but
1) Putting points into say "scoring" would distribute points across Heading, Finishing etc evenly
This way you couldnt spam a team of all 99 sp and 99ACC players to go out and do the business cheaply
2) I'm glad the transfer system is much better but a few little things need to be sorted with it,
i.e. Im glad Bentford town cant sign Drogba, but i'm angry CSKA Moscow cant sign and average French league player|||bang on mate best post yet|||09's manager mode was shallow, flawed, limited and buggy, 10's manager mode was shallow, flawed, limited and buggy (to the extreme) in different ways, 11's Career Mode us extremely shallow, flawed, limited, numerous features removed, yet still rather buggy.|||The great thing about FIFA 09's MM was the player growth.|||
09's manager mode was shallow, flawed, limited and buggy, 10's manager mode was shallow, flawed, limited and buggy (to the extreme) in different ways, 11's Career Mode us extremely shallow, flawed, limited, numerous features removed, yet still rather buggy.
Yes but 08's manager mode was shallow, flawed, limited, but NOT buggy!
This thread would be correct if the title was 08 and not 09 - remember, in 09 player growth was sped to an extreme level, so you could turn a scouted player into Ronaldo within two seasons, if not less. This was not an issue in 08, while I don't remember any bad bugs either, though it's been a while.
MM/CM basically has been on a downward spiral since 08.
(I switched from PES in 08 so can't speak for 07 or before.)
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The great thing about FIFA 09's MM was the player growth.
Hopefully you're joking. Player growth in 08 was fine, but in 09 it was ultra fast, and pretty much ruined the challenge of building a team from the bottom up.
But if you meant because we had the option for manual growth, then I agree!!|||
The great thing about FIFA 09's MM was the player growth.
Hopefully you're joking. Player growth in 08 was fine, but in 09 it was ultra fast, and pretty much ruined the challenge of building a team from the bottom up.
But if you meant because we had the option for manual growth, then I agree!!
Yes, the manual growth was the bit I loved. However, I think that in some ways the speed was fine. While players would grow remarkably quickly, remember also that some players would drop extremely quickly.
Two things I would like to see added for FIFA12 is this:
- Manual growth, however you get points for each category e.g. Attacking, Defending, Mental, Movement etc
- Different players have different types of growth. You could have 'Elite' who could grow 5 in one season! But then you could have 'Sleeper's' or 'Slow' who grow very little, if at all. Then for each of those you could have Early Bloomer, Late Bloomer, and normal.|||
Yes, the manual growth was the bit I loved. However, I think that in some ways the speed was fine. While players would grow remarkably quickly, remember also that some players would drop extremely quickly.
Two things I would like to see added for FIFA12 is this:
- Manual growth, however you get points for each category e.g. Attacking, Defending, Mental, Movement etc
- Different players have different types of growth. You could have 'Elite' who could grow 5 in one season! But then you could have 'Sleeper's' or 'Slow' who grow very little, if at all. Then for each of those you could have Early Bloomer, Late Bloomer, and normal.
Sliders are the answer. While your ideas sound like they could be fun, many people are interested in ultra realistic growth. Everyone has their different preferences and different ideas of what they want out of this mode, and the only way EA are going to please everyone, or at least as many people as possible, is by providing options to all the main features.
For me I wouldn't want growth as fast as 09 but if that's what some people want, then they should get it. I tend to get bored with teams and start over frequently, so faster than average growth is good for someone like me who isn't in it for the long haul - I honestly don't see myself ever completing 15 seasons.
Players should definitely grow at different speeds though and have different max potentials. Player growth must be linked to not only how they perform but also their potential, and I want our scout to give us an estimate of that potential BEFORE we buy him. It's not enough to compare players on their current stats but on what they may end up as. Finding hidden gems that would become valuable members of your squad or a lottery ticket was great in the past, and while CM shouldn't stray too far from realism their needs to be an adequate amount of fun and fantasy involved to make the gamemode interesting.
Again, sliders are the answer.|||i personally do not like the manual player growth from previous fifa's nor the new auto growth in fifa 11. I always thought that this is the most difficult part of manager mode to implement because not all young players grow yet some will and other will become stars. I think the should change player growth to the style like your virtual pro.
Basically it is manual and auto growth. As in for every player in the game there are (lets say 400) accomplishments to unlock. When one is unlocked the player grows in the specific field. I think this will build players in their specific position. The problem in old ffia's was that eventually all my players would be near perfect in every aspect. I could have my CB with powerful and accurate shots and my ST would be great at tackling and marking.
But with accomplishments a striker cannot unlock the defensive accomplishments, thus he grows in what he does best scoring. So you can still improve your 6'4 ST. If he is good at jumping and heading but lacks dribbling and passing you can try to unlock those achievements. Like the way it is now for you VP you can easily unlock some but then overtime you unlock others. This will then allow you to somewhat control growth but also leave a cap on how good they can get.
The one thing is there should be less accomplishments for things players are good at. So Xavi will not be able to get that much better at passing because he is already rated so high there, but he will have more accomplishments for lets say long shots. Age as well should be a factor, a 34 year old player will not be able to unlock to much spee and accelerations, while the youngsters have the most accomplishments to unlock.
I think this way would add more depth to the CM, because for me i love improving my vp and if they implement this for all players than it would be exciting because you still control the growth but only so much .
If this is confusing just ask and ill clearify...also some input would be nice...i know there will be flaws you find or perhaps so suggestions and i would like to hear them.|||Well I think a main flaw would be the sheer amount of data and code invovled for what? A few thousand players?
I have a feeling that would open itself up to alot more bugs, mishaps etc. And restricting them based on age or not etc
I mean currently there are ones that dont even unlock for your own VP, 1 player through a glitch or what have you.
I do like the idea in theory tho|||look at the fifa sereies on PSP. it has everything from academy scouts to worldwide scouts and more realistic features than PS3/XBOX versions. If you add PSP Fifa features with FIFA 11 features and gameplay you get a much more realisitic game.|||Personally I don't want to see manual growth return, it's completely unrealistic especially being able to change physical stats of players, want Beckham to have the pace of Cronaldo? No problem, just save up enough XP...
What the system should be in my mind is automated but you can guide it by adjusting the training regimen at certain points throughout the season, there will be 5 training routines, General, Mental, Physical, Skills, Special:
General- All players automatically put in this routine and it focuses on all stats with the possibility of steady small improvements on all stats depending on age and development curve.
Mental- Players will focus on their mental abilities and will improve a little more significantly in this area depending on age and development curve, older players will gain more from this regimen as they have experience/maturity.
Physical- Players will focus on their physical abilities and will improve a little more significantly in this area depending on age and development curve, younger players or those coming back from long term injuries will benefit more from this regimen, for older players it can be used as a way to temporary halt the natural decline of physical stats.
Skills- Players will focus on skill based abilities, defending for defenders, passing/creating for midfielders, finishing for fowards and a little in between for all (example wingbacks need to defend and also have some attacking/creating ability).
Special- This regimen is a special training routine which gives players a very small chance to gain a trait/speciailty based on their current stats, so for example if a player has good long shot there's a small chance putting him in special training will gain him the "shoots from long range" trait, or if he is a strong player a chance of gaining the "strength" speciality, the chance should be quite small say 5% so most of the time it's wasted training, but maybe worth a risk for young developing players.
Once set in a training regimen it lasts for 3 months and you have 2 options to change regimen per year, so for 6 months all players are in General but for the other 6 months there's the chance at 2x3 month slots of specialised training. Simplest way is probably a week before a player's training is due to end you get an Email from the coach asking you which regimen you wish to change them to, if you ignore the email then they simply return/stay on General, you should also be able to change it yourself through the coaching menu and thus avoid receiving the emails if you so wish.|||
Personally I don't want to see manual growth return, it's completely unrealistic especially being able to change physical stats of players, want Beckham to have the pace of Cronaldo? No problem, just save up enough XP...
What the system should be in my mind is automated but you can guide it by adjusting the training regimen at certain points throughout the season, there will be 5 training routines, General, Mental, Physical, Skills, Special:
General- All players automatically put in this routine and it focuses on all stats with the possibility of steady small improvements on all stats depending on age and development curve.
Mental- Players will focus on their mental abilities and will improve a little more significantly in this area depending on age and development curve, older players will gain more from this regimen as they have experience/maturity.
Physical- Players will focus on their physical abilities and will improve a little more significantly in this area depending on age and development curve, younger players or those coming back from long term injuries will benefit more from this regimen, for older players it can be used as a way to temporary halt the natural decline of physical stats.
Skills- Players will focus on skill based abilities, defending for defenders, passing/creating for midfielders, finishing for fowards and a little in between for all (example wingbacks need to defend and also have some attacking/creating ability).
Special- This regimen is a special training routine which gives players a very small chance to gain a trait/speciailty based on their current stats, so for example if a player has good long shot there's a small chance putting him in special training will gain him the "shoots from long range" trait, or if he is a strong player a chance of gaining the "strength" speciality, the chance should be quite small say 5% so most of the time it's wasted training, but maybe worth a risk for young developing players.
Once set in a training regimen it lasts for 3 months and you have 2 options to change regimen per year, so for 6 months all players are in General but for the other 6 months there's the chance at 2x3 month slots of specialised training. Simplest way is probably a week before a player's training is due to end you get an Email from the coach asking you which regimen you wish to change them to, if you ignore the email then they simply return/stay on General, you should also be able to change it yourself through the coaching menu and thus avoid receiving the emails if you so wish.
Hahaha sounds a lot like PES to me... (not that it's a bad thing :)).
But i have to agree with many points about the new CM growth system, it's so annoying that just because you have a young 2nd string goalkeeper who gets an odd cup game every now and then doesn't mean their stats should be degrading, it's just not right. Neither is being on the bench because you're still 17... I get somewhat annoyed at how the young players with 'high potential' always lose a point/s because they're not in the starting 11 yet...
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